July 24, 2007
In the Wake of the Surge
By Michael J. Totten
BAGHDAD – 82nd Airborne’s Lieutenant William H. Lord from Foxborough, Massachusetts, prepared his company for a dismounted foot patrol in the Graya’at neighborhood of Northern Baghdad’s predominantly Sunni Arab district of Adhamiyah.
“While we’re out here saying hi to the locals and everyone seems to be getting along great,” he said, “remember to keep up your military bearing. Someone could try to kill you at any moment.”
I donned my helmet and vest, hopped into the backseat of a Humvee, and headed into the streets of the city with two dozen of the first infantry soldiers deployed to Iraq for the surge. The 82nd Airborne Division is famous for being ready to roll within 24 hours of call up, so they were sent first.
The surge started with these guys. Its progress here is therefore more measurable than it is anywhere else.
Darkness fell almost immediately after sunset. Microscopic dust particles hung in the air like a fog and trapped the day’s savage heat in the atmosphere.
Our convoy of Humvees passed through a dense jungular grove of palm and deciduous trees between Forward Operating Base War Eagle and the market district of Graya’at. The drivers switched off their headlights so insurgents and terrorists could not see us coming. They drove using night vision goggles as eyes.
Just to the right of my knees were the feet of the gunner. He stood in the middle of the Humvee and manned a machine gun in a turret sticking out of the top. I could hear him swiveling his cannon from side to side and pointing it into the trees as we approached the urban sector in their area of operations.
This was all purely defensive. The battalion I’m embedded with here in Baghdad hasn’t suffered a single casualty – not even one soldier wounded – since they arrived in the Red Zone in January. The surge in this part of the city could not possibly be going better than it already is. Most of Graya’at’s insurgents and terrorists who haven’t yet fled are either captured, dormant, or dead.
A car approached our Humvee with its lights on.
“I can’t see, I can’t see,” said the driver. Bright lights are blinding with night vision goggles. “Flash him with the laser,” he said to the gunner. “Flash him with the laser!”
A green laser beam shot out from the gunner’s turret toward the windshield of the oncoming car. The headlights went out.
“What was that about?” I said.
“It’s part of our rules of engagement,” the driver said. “They all know that. The green laser is a warning, and it’s a little bit scary because it looks like a weapon is being pointed at them.”
We slowly rolled into the market area. Smiling children ran up to and alongside the convoy and excitedly waved hello. It felt like I was riding with a liberating army.
Graya’at’s streets are quiet and safe. It doesn’t look or feel like war zone at all. American soldiers just a few miles away are still engaged in almost daily firefights with insurgents and terrorists, but this part of the city has been cleared by the surge.
Before the surge started the neighborhood was much more dangerous than it is now.
“We were on base at Camp Taji [north of the city] and commuting to work,” Major Jazdyk told me earlier. “The problem with that was that the only space we dominated was inside our Humvees. So we moved into the neighborhoods and live there now with the locals. We know them and they know us.”
Lieutenant Lawrence Pitts from Fayetteville, North Carolina, elaborated. “We patrol the streets of this neighborhood 24/7,” he said. “We knock on doors, ask people what they need help with. We really do what we can to help them out. We let them know that we’re here to work with them to make their city safe in the hopes that they’ll give us the intel we need on the bad guys. And it worked.”
The area of Baghdad just to the south of us, which the locals think of as downtown Adhamiyah, is surrounded by a wall recently built by the Army. It is not like the wall that divides Israel from the West Bank. Pedestrians can cross it at will. Only the roads are blocked off. Vehicles are routed through two very strict checkpoints. Weapons transporters and car bombers can’t get in or out.
The area inside the wall is mostly Sunni. The areas outside the wall are mostly Shia. Violence has been drastically reduced on both sides because Sunni militias – including Al Qaeda – are kept in, and Shia militias – including Moqtada al Sadr’s Mahdi Army, are kept out.
Graya’at is a mixed Sunni-Shia neighborhood immediately to the north of the wall.
We dismounted our Humvees and set up a vehicle checkpoint on the far side of the market area. Curfew was going into effect. Anyone trying to drive into the area would be searched.
Dozens of Iraqi civilians milled about on the streets.
“Salam Aleikum,” said the soldiers and I as we walked past.
“Aleikum as Salam,” said each in return.
They really did seem happy to see us.
Children ran up to me.
“Mister, mister, mister!” they said and pantomimed the snapping of photos. I lifted my camera to my face and they nodded excitedly.
A large group of men gathered around a juice vendor and greeted us warmly as we approached. A large man in a flowing dishdasha spoke English and, judging by the deference showed to him by the others, seemed to be a community leader of some sort.
Kids pulled on my shirt as Lieutenant Lord spoke to the group about a gas station the Army is helping set up in the neighborhood. Gasoline is more important to Iraqis than it is to even Americans. Baghdad is as much an automobile-based city as Los Angeles. They also need fuel for electric generators. Baghdad’s electrical grid only supplies one hour of electricity every day. It is ancient, overloaded, in severe disrepair, and is sabotaged by the insurgents. The outside temperature rarely drops below 100 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer, even at night. Air conditioners aren’t luxuries here. They are requirements. No gasoline? No air conditioner.
“The gas station on the corner should be opening soon,” the lieutenant said to the group of men. “Do you think the prices are fair?”
The fat man understood the question. Our young interpreter from Beirut, Lebanon, who calls herself “Shine,” translated for everyone else.
Most gasoline in Iraq has to be purchased on the black market for four times the commercial and government rate partly because there is an acute lack of proper places to sell it. A new gas station in this country is actually a big deal.
The men thought the price of gasoline at the station was reasonable. The conversation continued mundanely and I quickly grew bored.
Everyone was friendly. No one shot at us or even looked at us funny. Infrastructure problems, not security, were the biggest concerns at the moment. I felt like I was in Iraqi Kurdistan – where the war is already over – not in Baghdad.
It was an edgy “Kurdistan,” though. Every now and then someone drove down the street in a vehicle. If any military-aged males (MAMs as the Army guys call them) were in the car, the soldiers stopped it and made everybody get out. The vehicle and the men were then searched.
Everyone who was searched took it in stride. Some of the Iraqi men smirked slightly, as if the whole thing were a minor joke and a non-threatening routine annoyance that they had been through before. The procedure looked and felt more like airport security in the United States than, say, the more severe Israeli checkpoints in the West Bank and Gaza.
“What are you guys doing out after curfew?” said Sergeant Lizanne.
“I’m sorry, sorry,” said a young Iraqi man in a striped blue and tan t-shirt.
“There is no sorry,” said Sergeant Lizanne. “I don’t give a shit. The curfew is at the same time every night. I don’t want to have to start arresting you.”
“Why are you stopping these guys,” I said to Lieutenant Lord, “when there are so many other people milling around on the streets?”
“Because they’re MAMs who are driving,” he said. “We’re going easy on everyone else. We’ve already oppressed these people enough. They have a night culture in the summer, so if they aren’t military aged males driving cars we leave them alone. We were very heavy-handed in 2003. Now we’re trying to move forward together. At least 90 percent of them are normal fun-loving people.”
“Do they ever get pissed off when you search them?” I said.
“Not very often,” he said. “They understand we’re trying to protect them.”
“This is not what I expected in Baghdad,” I said.
“Most of what we’re doing doesn’t get reported in the media,” he said. “We’re not fighting a war here anymore, not in this area. We’ve moved way beyond that stage. We built a soccer field for the kids, bought all kinds of equipment, bought them school books and even chalk. Soon we’re installing 1,500 solar street lamps so they have light at night and can take some of the load off the power grid. The media only covers the gruesome stuff. We go to the sheiks and say hey man, what kind of projects do you want in this area? They give us a list and we submit the paperwork. When the projects get approved, we give them the money and help them buy stuff.”
Not everything they do is humanitarian work, unless you consider counter-terrorism humanitarian work. In my view, you should. Few Westerners think of personal security as a human right, but if you show up in Baghdad I’ll bet you will. Personal security may, in fact, be the most important human right. Without it the others mean little. People aren’t free if they have to hide in their homes from death squads and car bombs.
In another part of Graya’at is an area called the Fish Market. Gates were installed at each entrance so terrorists can’t drive car bombs inside. The people here are extraordinarily grateful for this. Businesses, not cars, are booming now at the market. Residents feel free and safe enough to go out.
“The kids here do seem to like you,” I said to Lieutenant Lord.
“They do,” he said. “In Sadr City, though, they throw rocks and flip us off.”
The American military is staying out of Sadr City for now. The surge hasn’t even begun there, and I don’t know if it will.
I wandered over to the man selling juice at a stand. An American soldier bought a glass from him.
“Have you tried this juice?” the soldier said to me. “It’s really good stuff. Here have a sip.”
He handed me the glass. It was an excellent mixture of freshly squeezed orange juice and something else. Pineapple, I think.
The kids kept pulling my shirt.
“Mister, mister!” they said, wanting me to take their picture.
The same kids kept pestering the soldiers, as well. They seemed to get a big kick out of it.
A small group of soldiers continued talking to the locals about community projects they’re helping out with.
I tried to listen in but the kids wouldn’t leave me alone. Finally one of the adults took mercy on me and shooed the children away so I could listen and talk to the grownups. The conversation, though, was mundane. The soldiers were talking and acting like aid workers, not warriors from the elite 82nd Airborne Division.
“Man, this is boring,” one of them said to me later. “I’m an adrenaline junky. There’s no fight here. It won’t surprise me if we start handing out speeding tickets.” So it goes in at least this part of Baghdad that has been cleared by the surge.
“When we first got here,” said another and laughed, “shit hit the fan.”
It was all a bit boring, but blessedly so. I knew already that not everyone in Baghdad was hostile. But it was slightly surprising to see that entire areas in the Red Zone are not hostile.
Anything can happen in Baghdad, even so. The convulsive, violent, and overtly hostile Sadr City is only a few minutes drive to the southeast.
“Want to walk past your favorite house?” Lieutenant Lord said to Sergeant Lizanne.
“Let’s do it,” said Sergeant Lizanne.
“What’s your favorite house?” I said.
“It’s a house we walked past one night,” said Sergeant Lizanne. “Some guys on the roof locked and loaded on us.”
Gun shots rang out in the far distance. None of the Iraqis paid much attention but the soldiers perked up and stiffened their posture like hunting dogs.
“Gun shots,” Lieutenant Lord said.
“I heard,” I said. “You going to do anything about it?”
“Nah,” he said and shrugged. “They were far away and could be anything, even shots fired in the air at a wedding. A lot of these guys are stereotypical Arabs.”
The gun shots were a part of the general ambience.
We walked along a narrow path along the banks of the Tigris River in darkness. “The house,” as they called it, where someone locked and loaded a rifle, was a quarter mile or so up ahead.
“What will you do when you get to the house?” I asked Lieutenant Lord.
“We’ll do a soft-knock,” he said. “We’re not going to be dicks about it.”
I couldn’t see well, but I could see. Even my camera could see if I held it steady enough.
The soldiers had night vision goggles. They could see perfectly, if “green” counts as perfect. One of them let me borrow his for a few minutes.
Putting on the goggles was like stepping into another world. The soldiers’ rifles come with a laser that shoots a light visible only to those wearing the goggles. It helps soldiers zero in on their target. It also lets them “point” at things in the terrain when they talk to each other. Some used the green rifle laser to point out locations in the area the way a professor points at a chalk board with a stick.
We walked in silence and darkness toward “the house.” I could just barely make out the silhouettes of the soldiers’ helmets and rifles and body armor in front of me.
“Where should I be when this goes down?” I quietly said to the lieutenant.
“Just stay next to me,” he whispered back.
We stopped in front of the house. It was shrouded in total darkness on the bank of the river.
Lieutenant Lord quietly signaled for half his platoon to go around to the other side of the house. I scanned the roof looking for snipers or gunmen, but didn’t see anyone. Still, I still decided to step up to the outer wall of the house so no one could shoot me from the roof.
We waited in silence for ten minutes. The area was absolutely quiet and still. The curfew was in effect and we were away from the main market area where pedestrians were allowed out after dark.
Feeling more relaxed, I stepped away from the house and toward the river. Once again I checked the roof for snipers or gun men. This time I saw the black outlines of two soldiers standing up there and motioning to us below.
It was time to walk around to the other side, to the front door, and go in. I stayed close to the lieutenant.
The other side of the house, the front side of the house, was lit by street lights. Children laughed and kicked around a soccer ball.
Gun shots rang out in the night, closer this time.
“Take a knee,” Lieutenant Lord said to one of his men.
The soldier got down on one knee and pointed his weapon down the street in the direction of the gunfire. The children kept playing soccer as though nothing had happened. I casually leaned against the wall of the house in case something nasty came down the street.
We heard no more shots. It could have been anything.
A soldier pushed open the gate and moved up the stairs toward the front door. I followed cautiously behind the lieutenant to make sure I wouldn’t get hit if something happened.
Up the stairs was an open area in the house that hadn’t yet been finished by the construction workers.
Lieutenant Lord had gotten far ahead of me. I found him speaking to an old man and his family. He, his military age son, his wife, and some children were herded into a single small room where everyone could be watched at the same time.
“We’re not going to be dicks about it,” he had said, and he lived up to his promise. The family was treated with utmost respect. The old woman blew kisses at us. The children smiled. This was not a raid.
I stepped into the room and noticed a picture of the moderate Shia cleric Ayatollah Sistani on the wall. It suddenly seemed unlikely that this family was hostile. Still, someone in the house had locked and loaded on patrolling American soldiers.
“We have tight relationships with some of the people whose sons are detainees,” Lieutenant Colonel Wilson A. Shoffner had told me earlier. “They don’t approve of their children joining Al Qaeda or the Mahdi Army. The support for these groups really isn’t that high.”
Perhaps the man’s son was the one who had locked and loaded.
The old man handed Lieutenant Lord an AK-47. The lieutenant pulled out the clip.
“Do you have any more guns,” he said. Our Lebanese interpreter translated.
“I have only one gun,” he said. “I am an old man.”
“I have a pistol,” said the man’s son.
“If you go down into Adhamiyah do you take your pistol with you?” said the lieutenant. Adhamiyah is a Sunni-majority area, and this family was Shia.
“No,” he said. “Of course not.”
“Someone here locked and loaded on me when we did a foot patrol along the river a while ago,” Lieutenant Lord said. “Who was it?”
The old man laughed. “It was me!” he said and laughed again. He couldn’t stop laughing. He even seemed slightly relieved. “I thought it might have been insurgents! It was dark. I couldn’t see who it was. All Americans are my sons.”
Lieutenant Lord looked at him dubiously.
“What did you see?” he said. “Tell me the story of what you saw.”
“I heard people walking,” said the old man. “I did not see Americans. I looked over the roof and heard who I guess was your interpreter speaking Arabic.”
“Sergeant Miller,” Lieutenant Lord said.
“Sir,” Sergeant Miller said.
“Does that sound right to you?”
“Sounds right to me, LT,” he said.
“If this is a nice neighborhood,” Lieutenant Lord said, “why did you lock and load?”
“I thought maybe there were insurgents down there,” the old man said.
“Are there insurgents here?”
“Maybe. I don’t know. I don’t think here, no.”
“Then why lock and load?”
The old man mumbled something.
“Sergeant Miller, I want to separate the old man from his family,” Lieutenant Lord said. “Keep an eye on them.”
The lieutenant walked the old man to the roof. I followed.
“I’m very concerned about what you’re telling me,” he said. “Who is making you live in fear?”
“I’m a good guy,” said the old man.
“I’m not saying you aren’t,” said the lieutenant. “I’m just very concerned that you are afraid of somebody here.”
“It was the first time. It was dark. I couldn’t see. I’m very sorry.”
“It’s okay,” said the lieutenant. “You don’t need to be sorry. You have the right to defend yourself and your home. Just be sure if you have to shoot someone that you know who you’re shooting at. Thank you for your help, and I am sorry for waking you up.”
The old man hugged the lieutenant and kissed him on his both cheeks.
The family waved us goodbye.
“Ma Salema,” I said and felt slightly guilty for being there.
We walked back to the Humvees.
“Do you believe him?” I said to the lieutenant. I have no idea how to tell when an Iraqi is lying.
“I do,” he said. “I think he’s a good guy. His story matched what happened.”
“He didn’t want to answer your question, though,” I said, “about who he is afraid of.”
There are terrible stories around here about the masked men of the death squads. Sometimes they break into people’s houses and asking the children who they’re afraid of. If they name the enemies of the death squad, they are spared. If they name the death squad itself, they and their families are killed. It’s a wicked interrogation because it cannot be beaten – the children don’t know which death squad has broken into the house.
“He didn’t want to say who he’s afraid of because he’s afraid,” Lieutenant Lord said. “If the insurgents find out he gave information to us, or that he helped us, he’s dead.”
Postscript: Please support independent journalism. Traveling to and working in Iraq is expensive. I can’t publish dispatches on this Web site for free without substantial reader donations, so I'll appreciate it if you pitch in what you can. Blog Patron allows you to make recurring monthly payments, and even small donations will be extraordinarily helpful so I can continue this project.
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Many thanks in advance.
Posted by Michael J. Totten at July 24, 2007 11:41 AMWow!! First!
Greetings from PDX Michael!
Great story today. I get the feeling that you are mightily surprised at the events you are seeing there in Baghdad. Sure makes for some encouraging news. I've really enjoyed your work. I put you way up the Respected Journalist list along with Michael Yon. You can see its a pretty exclusive list. Now there's two people on it...
Take Care Michael, keep up the good work.
Love to buy you a beer when you get back home...
Tim B
Posted by: PDX Tim at July 24, 2007 12:04 PMIt's difficult to imagine abandoning these people to the savagery of al-Qaeda. Especially the children.
Posted by: Michael Smith at July 24, 2007 12:14 PMThat is some solid reporting. Very different from the usual canned MSM stuff we get from the Green Zone Hilton hotel bar. That deserves a contribution to the Totten tip jar.
Posted by: Carlos at July 24, 2007 12:17 PMIt's difficult to imagine abandoning these people to the savagery of al-Qaeda. Especially the children.
Agreed. Unfortunately most people voting Democrat have no problem whatsoever imagining such a thing.
Posted by: Carlos at July 24, 2007 12:21 PMHello, Michael. Your work continues to be excellent, even more so than usual.
This is a ridiculously bold and presumptious request for me to make, but do you have any means to report and/or verify that Iran is indeed supplying material against US troops? Training? Manpower? I realize that may not be relevant to your mission or area. Just thought it worth requesting.
Posted by: Matt Snyder at July 24, 2007 01:18 PMBoy, I envy you, Michael!
Thank you so much for your reporting.
One little suggestion if I may that would help your credibility with the soldiers you're riding with (actually two):
1. AK's have "magazines", NOT "clips"--a magazine encloses the ammunition
2. A "cannon" is not the same as a machine gun
Keep up the great work!
Posted by: Stan T. at July 24, 2007 01:19 PMGood stuff.
I am curious about the Lebanese interpreter's story. What made her go to Iraq?
But...but...everybody knows the war is lost and that American Soldiers are animals!! How can we believe your lying eyes when people in Washington and New York have reliable sources that tell them about the horror?
Ahh Michael, resistance if futile. Give up now.
Seriously, thank you for all you do(again) and keep up speaking the truth!!
Posted by: TBinSTL at July 24, 2007 01:30 PMGreat reporting, refreshing. It's sadly astonishing how little of this is reported in the MSM, certainly so without the more subtle and less subtle forms of PC spin, anti-administration spin, etc. Great stuff, simple enough, but great. As with Yon's reports this reminds me of my favorite quote on reporting:
"Serious, careful, honest journalism is essential, not because it is a guiding light but because it is a form of honorable behavior, involving the reporter and the reader." Martha Gellhorn
It's nice to read some serious, careful - and honest - journalism.
Support independent journalism.
Posted by: Michael B at July 24, 2007 01:35 PMI'm a bit concerned that these people could be compromised by their photos being published on the net - should I be?
Posted by: Yehudit at July 24, 2007 01:37 PMThanks for reporting what's really going on--at least what else is really going on.
It's easier to believe we should stay when this sort of story gets out. Too bad the MSM will most likely ignore this because since it doesn't bleed, it'll never lead.
Thanks again, MT.
Posted by: Cosmo at July 24, 2007 01:41 PMBut then, 80+% of iraq is peaceful. Most of the peaceful places, there aren't any US soldiers.
It's good there are places where the insurgents are dormant, where there are US soldiers and no fighting. But don't we need 300,000 to 400,000 troops if we're going to do that many of the places there's fighting?
This is a pleasant story, but it isn't representative of the 80% of iraq where there's no fighting and no US troops, and it isn't representative of the 10% of iraq where US troops are fighting, and it isn't representative of the places where there's fighting and no US troops....
Still, it looks like a nice place to take journalists. Give them an upbeat view.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 24, 2007 02:19 PMThanks for the story Michael. It is good to know that you are alive and kicking.
I was surprised, at first to read about your going out on an armed patrol in Baghdad. But after reading the story I understand that it is fairly safe, as these things go.
I agree that this is not what I expected. It is certainly very different from what we hear from the MSM at home.
Michael, how different is the weather and terrain in Baghdad from Kurdistan? What about the architecture? Is what we saw in Dahook typical Arab or uniquely Kurdish?
And on a practical money making note, have you seen any good spots for a Starbucks? What about alcohol and tobacco? And can you get me another pack of Sobraine's
Stay safe and keep up the great reporting. -S
Posted by: Sean at July 24, 2007 02:19 PMWell, if there is fear of insurgent reprisals if they hear about what the old man said, it may not have been too wise to publish their photo.
Posted by: james at July 24, 2007 02:24 PMMichael - excellent reporting as always. It's disheartening that magazines like TNR would rather publish anonymous and dubious tales of soldier misconduct than an actual documented, first-person view of the scene. Glad it's getting out one way or another, though.
I have to echo Yehudit's concern - if the Iraqi family in the house by the river lives in fear of retribution, please don't put them at risk by publishing their photos!
Posted by: Hannibal S at July 24, 2007 02:42 PMWow!!! The two Michaels.
This is a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10275b.htm):
Following these Scriptural passages, Christian tradition gives to St. Michael four offices:
* To fight against Satan.
* To rescue the souls of the faithful from the power of the enemy, especially at the hour of death.
* To be the champion of God's people, the Jews in the Old Law, the Christians in the New Testament; therefore he was the patron of the Church, and of the orders of knights during the Middle Ages.
* To call away from earth and bring men's souls to judgment ("signifer S. Michael repraesentet eas in lucam sanctam", Offert. Miss Defunct. "Constituit eum principem super animas suscipiendas", Antiph. off. Cf. "Hermas", Pastor, I, 3, Simil. VIII, 3).
I am having trouble determining if the people calling into question MJT's judgment about publishing the photos of local people, many of whom obviously sought his attention, are being intentionally patronizing and condescending, or if it is simply oblivious arrogance. Exactly what sensitive information did he divulge here? The old man specifically did NOT name names or implicate any one group in particular, something MJT went took care to mention, besides which, the death squads will murder whomever they wish regardless of what is on the internet. Mugging for the camera seems to be local sport among the young people, and openly showing hospitality to Americans is common. Yon has reported identical behavior innumerable times. I am sure when some of you are embedded in Iraq you will conduct yourselves much differently, but I will let MJT decide what is appropriate for HIS blog.
Well done MJT, Keep it up!
Wow now I am REALLY glad I sent you a few measly dollars to help out. It was the least I could do.
Wish I could see the world as you do, but thanks muchly for the insights.
Your writing is a window into another world. Another world that you always try to fully explain to those who will never really personally experience it. I feel as if I am there with you.
Thanks,
Posted by: dougf at July 24, 2007 03:47 PM
Thanks for reporting what's really going on in Baghdad. I don't bother reading the NYTimes anymore. It's great to know the surge is effective and that most Iraqis are cooperating.
God bless our troops and keep them safe...and you too Mr. Totten. Stay safe.
Posted by: joyce at July 24, 2007 04:09 PMMr. Totten,
This is, again, an outstanding post. You adequately described a phenomenon that I have been aware of since my last tour in Iraq.
And, with that in mind, I want to respond to a quote from one of your reader’s comments. “J. Thomas” stated:
“Still, it looks like a nice place to take journalists. Give them an upbeat view.”
It seems that the suggestion is that Mr. Totten was embedded in a non-hostile area premeditatedly to ensure positive posts. The logic of this idea is, in and of itself, curious. There are numerous embedded journalists throughout Iraq. I couldn’t estimate the number myself with any assured sense of accuracy but no doubt anyone can imagine that the number is quite high. By this logic alone, certain dynamics can be inferred:
A) Here’s the premises: There are many embedded journalists. Embedded journalists must be placed in safe areas. The inference: There are many safe places in Iraq like the one where Mr. Totten currently reports.
B) Or… the condition in Iraq is not at as violence-plagued as some would be led to believe.
While the answer may be some mix of the two available options, I am going to suggest that “B” is the most accurate choice based on the knowledge gleaned from my own experiences.
Having served with an infantry battalion much like the one subjected in the post during a year in Ar Ramadi when Ar Ramadi was at its most conflicted, I can assure you that the violence is not as you might expect. Our unit suffered pretty massive causalities during our year. However, we patrolled every single day of that year. Those patrols lasted many hours. And, typically, even in then “chaotic” Ramadi, most patrols followed the same peaceful format as the one described in Mr. Totten’s post.
Even in the worst places, day-to-day activity is mundane and quiet. When attacks occur, they do so viciously. In my case, these resulted in my unit’s heavy causalities. Nonetheless, I rarely patrolled in fear. I knew that on most days, our patrol would result in an absence of action. Again, this was in a city considered to be one of the most violent of the war. This peculiar dynamic of the situation in Iraq is lost on Big Media.
It’s not totally their fault either. They can’t be privy to such conditions because most Big Media types don’t patrol everyday, get to know the citizens, or understand the social dynamics. They are reactive types instead of proactive. But we can’t necessarily expect them to be otherwise.
I just wanted to do my part to make everyone aware that Mr. Totten is not reporting the exception, but is instead becoming aware of the “rule.” I base this on my two years experience in the country, on the streets. I implore you to trust my judgment and, because of it, trust Mr. Totten’s assessment as well.
If you are interested in my experiences and my take on this situation then I would appreciate it if you would visit my own blog located here: http://educatedsoldier.blogspot.com
Thank you for your time. And thank you, Mr. Totten, for your courage and integrity.
Posted by: Steve B. at July 24, 2007 04:13 PMGood stuff. We might as well stay forever if it's this awesome.
Posted by: Tuna at July 24, 2007 04:36 PMMJT Fan:
At least in my case, chalk it up to ignorance if you must. Certainly no condescension intended. And yes, I do assume that Mr. Totten knows which photos to publish and which may put people at risk, but it seemed in this case a man who "If the insurgents find out he gave information to us, or that he helped us, [is] dead" may not want it known that he had a friendly relationship with US troops.
I'm sure Michael knows what he's doing - it was just a few readers' way of saying "are you sure?"
Posted by: Hannibal S at July 24, 2007 04:42 PMThank you for a great article.
Posted by: Cans at July 24, 2007 04:44 PM"Still, it looks like a nice place to take journalists. Give them an upbeat view." J Thomas
And with the same attitude, thanks for clarifying the situation, saving the rest of us from our cossetted innocence and credulity.
More seriously now, Melanie Phillips frames another aspect of Iraq, Lions Led by Donkeys, excerpt:
"Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a person’s face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of al-Qaeda in Iraq are daring to become informants for the US military in a hostile Baghdad neighbourhood. The ground-breaking move in Doura is part of a wider trend that has started in other al-Qaeda hotspots across the country and in which Sunni insurgent groups and tribal sheikhs have stood together with the coalition against the extremist movement."
But no J Thomas, we do not now believe it's all "down hill" from here, we'd more simply like to see a human face put on it all, we'd like to see all the realities reported, before we decide what is and what is not possible, what can and what cannot be reasonably and responsibly hoped for.
Support independent journalism, support authentic journalism.
Posted by: Michael B at July 24, 2007 05:08 PMGreat post, Michael. Any sense as to how things are going elsewhere in the city? I know you mentioned Sadr City, but what about other neighborhoods?
Posted by: Michael at July 24, 2007 05:08 PMThese poor people - not only do they have to bow down to their local militia masters, but they have to kiss American ass as well. They have to kiss the ass of the people who invaded their country and stood by quietly as the place was wrecked. So, in essence, we're paying for this war twice, once to demolish the place and another to rebuild it. Excellent planning, Bush and Co.
Again, imagine having to pretend to love your occupiers -- it makes me sick to think of it.
I can only imagine how terrifying it was for the children in 'the house' to be awakened by a troop of robocop-looking guys and then watch as their father is degraded by Capt Robocop. Please don't ask me what was degrading about his treatment, if you have to ask, you have no heart or soul, seriously.
Can you imagine being 18 years old in Iraq and being harassed daily by these robocops? I imagine if you're a black male in an American city you must have some idea.
This whole story is quite sad. You Republicans looking for justification and redemption fail to see the big picture.
MJT, I am grateful for your work and courage. My disgust with American Foreign Policy has no bearing on my admiration for your work.
Posted by: Edan at July 24, 2007 05:40 PMThese poor people - not only do they have to bow down to their local militia masters, but they have to kiss American ass as well. They have to kiss the ass of the people who invaded their country and stood by quietly as the place was wrecked. So, in essence, we're paying for this war twice, once to demolish the place and another to rebuild it.
I've never been to Iraq, but I have been to other Middle Eastern countries, and the phenomenon of children rushing up to strange Americans, being nice to them and demanding to have their photographs taken is pretty consistent in that area of the world. Maybe these kids didn't grow up with irrational hatred of fictional characters like 'Robocop'.
The only time I've heard overt hatred of Americans (especially the American military) directly expressed in the Middle East is when I talk to Europeans or Brits. Or, from anti-military American leftists. It's quite sad that leftists looking for justification and redemption usually fail to see the big picture.
Posted by: mary at July 24, 2007 05:55 PMMary - are you really that naive or are you just kidding?
Posted by: Edan at July 24, 2007 06:28 PMGreat work, Michael. Stay safe.
Posted by: Abu Kais at July 24, 2007 06:36 PMMichael,
Nice one. Remember to hydrate, get some Propel fitness water packets.
Stan T.,
The M2HB is a light auto-cannon in all but name. You are absolutely right to ding him on "clips" though. Next time we go shooting I'll drive the point home.
Sean,
I have a carton of Sobranies from the last trip. If you promise not to freak my wife out the next time I go to Iraq, I will let you have them at my cost.
Posted by: Patrick S Lasswell at July 24, 2007 07:21 PMMary - are you really that naive or are you just kidding?
That depends on how you define 'naive'. If you paid full price to see Michael Moore's 'Sicko', or if you believe that Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn are intellectuals who know something about politics and war, if you believe that there are Americans out there who both define themselves as 'working class' and who love the Left for everything they've done for them, if you believe anti-war leftists like Kos support the troops, I'd call you naive'.
I'd guess your definition is different.
I'm not saying that all kids in the Middle East love Americans, but I am saying that this is how they behave. I'm not saying that everyone in the Middle East loves American foreign policy - (everyone, worldwide, criticizes that) I'm just saying that verbal expressions of overt hatred towards the US and our military tend to be expressed more often by Europeans, Brits and American leftists.
These expressions of overt hatred and contempt are usually followed or preceeded by an expression of solidarity with America or Americans, [ie. "I support the troops, BUT..."]
Posted by: mary at July 24, 2007 07:24 PM"There are numerous embedded journalists throughout Iraq. I couldn’t estimate the number myself with any assured sense of accuracy but no doubt anyone can imagine that the number is quite high."
I believe the last time anyone mentioned the number it was around eight or nine.
Posted by: mikek at July 24, 2007 07:54 PMMr. Totten,
This report was beautifully written, and again sheds a light on the situation in Iraq that we really don't get from "professional" journalists who are trying to sell a story based on an angle. I really enjoy your reporting because you really do a great job at writing about what you see, low inference, and not add in any ideological politics. I appreciate that. One who does not agree with the war can read your posts and get a good understanding of how one particular section looks like on the ground.
I wanted to comment on one section:
I knew already that not everyone in Baghdad was hostile. But it was slightly surprising to see that entire areas in the Red Zone are not hostile.
This is an interesting perspective and one that I think highlights how we perceive this particular "war." Heck, I probably shouldn't even call it that.
There is a reason why these kinds of incidents are not reported frequently (and yes, things like this have been reported) the reason being that a spectacular attack has a far greater effect than the smaller and simpler aspects. Take 9/11 for example. How powerful was that attack? It will pervade our way of thinking for still a long time to come, but it was just one attack, not representative of much else, is it?
I really wish we could look at Iraq objectively, but politics continues to get in the way. Which is too bad.
Posted by: Dan at July 24, 2007 08:11 PMEdan,
it's obvious you're afraid of the U.S. and it's "robocops" and are projecting your irrational fear onto others in a clearly psychotic and delusional way. Anybody with two eyes who isn't batshit crazy insane like you can see that those Iraqi kids are THRILLED to hang out with American GIs. Again, don't assume regular joe blow Iraqis hate America as much as you and your pals on the Left do. That's called projection.
Posted by: Carlos at July 24, 2007 09:42 PMEdan,
So because US troops are exceptionally professional, they are robocops? You would prefer that our troops were drug-addled draftees?
Your characterization of US troops is two-dimensional and dehumanizing...by definition, since you are calling them a comic book stereotype. Our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere fighting terrorism deserve better because they have earned it. I've met troops in Iraq, and they were not robocops. They were human beings and well appreciated by the people there.
Posted by: Patrick S Lasswell at July 24, 2007 10:09 PM"Take 9/11 for example. How powerful was that attack? It will pervade our way of thinking for still a long time to come, but it was just one attack, not representative of much else, is it?"
What do you consider "our"? I don't see any connection between someone like you and the collective "our" that we call the US. How did you manage to miss the random murder (deaths you have probably screamed about on the net while you blamed someeone other than the person who blew himself up in a market) and mayhem? You couldn't "look at Iraq objectively" if your life depended on it.
Posted by: mikek at July 24, 2007 10:16 PMMichael,
About fell out of my chair when I read that you were
at C.O.P. WAR EAGLE.
My Son is there. He's a medic with A Battery.
His name is Nick.
Thank you so much for your excellent post.
Now I know and could see what Nick is living with.
Thanks again
10 spot says Edan is a canuck.
Posted by: mikek at July 24, 2007 10:19 PMif the Iraqi family in the house by the river lives in fear of retribution, please don't put them at risk by publishing their photos!
I published the photos with permission. The family didn't give us any intel.
I have met civilians who gave up intel and most of them do not want their pictures published.
I always ask. If they say no, I don't even take the photo let alone publish it.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at July 24, 2007 10:39 PMNo I am not arrogant or naive, my question was framed politely, I am a friend of Michael's, and I know he's not insulted by my question.
I have seen many stories about Iraqis being marked for death when it is known they are collaborating with the Americans. One of the journalists at this panel said that if a Humvee just stops by your door you will get a visit from some faction wanting to know what you are doing. In fact, the whole panel was about the danger local fixers are in because they help Americans.
I am not assuming this happens all the time to everyone but it does happen a lot, it's a topic which has been discussed frequently by journalists, and Michael knows that, and i assume he has some kind of heuristic for deciding what photos to post, and I'd like to know more about it.
Posted by: Yehudit at July 24, 2007 10:41 PMMichael, you posted your comment after I composed mine and before I posted it. Thanks for clarifying! Great work!
Posted by: Yehudit at July 24, 2007 10:43 PMMichael, thank you so much for this report. My son is in Adhamiyah, working at Old MOD. I don't know if this is near the area you've reported from. It is still a great relief to know that the surge is actually doing well and making a significant and positive difference in people's lives. I wish the majority of Americans would read this kind of news and see these kinds of pictures. My son's name is Josh. He believes in what he is doing and knows exactly why he is doing it. He and his fellow soldiers are great patriots and great human beings. Thanks for giving their work fair and honest coverage. Thousands of us who respect our kids and their leaders, and who hope the best for the Iraqi people, will always remember you.
Posted by: Gayle at July 25, 2007 12:20 AMGreat post. It's nice to see some areas are quite stable now.
Posted by: danielle at July 25, 2007 01:16 AMI've been to Iraq as a soldier in the US Army and the Iraqi kids do run up to soldiers with smiles on their faces.
I like this article. It sounds like the real thing to me, and I don't appreciate the comments of those who quickly discount these first-person observations (not based on government press releases, I must add) for whatever reason. These sorts of honest observations are important and I thank the author for his service to the troops.
Awesome report. Stay safe plz
Posted by: Winston at July 25, 2007 01:26 AMThe long persecuted Iraqi homosexual community is now finally getting some peace, thanks to American troops.
Posted by: Mitch Haase at July 25, 2007 01:28 AMSorry to disappoint you guys, I am not a Canadian. I live in the Cradle of Liberty: Philadelphia - a city in the good ole' red white and blue that is, at this point, just as dangerous as Baghdad - maybe even more. And while I'm not a fan of Zinn or Chomsky, I find it laughable to think you think your "right-wing" generals know more about war then they do -- the same generals who bungled Vietnam and now Baghdad. Too funny!
When I us the term robocop, I am not referring to the soldiers' personalities, I am referring to their equipment.
I think it's a travesty that our society offers many low-income people no choices, so they are hoodwinked into serving in the military. MJT, ask these soldiers how many of them have college degrees or their family's socio-economic status.
I'm sure you won't find many rich kids and senator's sons. Why? Because anyone with a brain will (mostly) stay away from the military in general and ESPECIALLY an ILLEGAL and IMMORAL war.
The USA is a terrorist nation - what we are doing in Iraq is a terrorist act. I can't believe any of you people here can see the photos of Hussein with Rumsfeld and still believe there is a moral component to any of this crap.
Posted by: Edan at July 25, 2007 05:23 AMThis is a useful story, as it gives a piece of the puzzle you don't get with the "30 people died today when a suicide bomber..." blah blah blah. But it IS just a piece of the puzzle. To draw general conclusions from this and Mr. Totten's previous story would be like a story saying "I walked down Bankhead Highway in Atlanta at 12 midnight carrying four million dollars and no firearms and nobody bothered me." The story would be interesting, but it does not refut that there were an awful lot of knifings and killings in the housing projects along that street that same night.
I look forward to the rest of Mr. Totten's stories.
Posted by: Appalled Moderate at July 25, 2007 05:46 AMMichael,
Nice story, and it would be nice if it were that way everywhere. However, next time, you may want to try 1-26 Infantry instead of the 82nd. As my mother said above, I'm at COP Old MOD, and the area we patrol inside the wall isn't so nice. The 82nd just got here, and frankly, hasn't done much to impress us. We have been here since August, and have more casualties then any other battalion since OIF I. It's nice to see a journalist who isn't trying to make soldiers look bad, but I'm afraid out in the soft sectors, you really aren't getting the full picture. Thanks for the honest reporting, though. Most of the reporters we've had around have done their best to put a negative spin on everything we do.
The USA is a terrorist nation - what we are doing in Iraq is a terrorist act.
Edan, if you say maximally untenable things like this without the slightest argument and, instead of arguing, put "illegal" and "immoral" in caps, you keep yourself in the unserious end of the forum, the place where late adolescents have to wait a few years before they develop a desire for the true instead of the fashionably cynical. There's a general din coming from that end of the forum, but no one pays attention to it.
Don't let the little boy type a snarky comeback. It would only prove my point. Besides, no one would read it except for the sort of entertainment value it shares with listening to Savage.
Posted by: Jim at July 25, 2007 05:57 AMJust a quick reply to Edan:
I hate to break it to you, but there's almost no one in my platoon who you could reasonably describe as either having "no choice", being "hoodwinked", and very few who are truly low-income. Most of us, and I'm an infantryman, so we're truly the grunts, are generally from a middle-class background. Quite a few of us are fairly well educated, and most of those who aren't plan to get themselves educated on the Army's dollar. There's a goodly amount of minorities, but they're by no means over-represented. In fact, the average US Grunt is a normal, middle or working class american white kid, who decided to do something with his life that matters. Obviously, that's something that "Edan" can't relate to.
Another thing: Just typing something in HUGE CAPITAL letters doesn't make it true, it just makes it look like you flunked grammar in high school. If you really want to convince people that this war is illegal and immoral (hard to do given the non-existence of any meaningful international law) you might want to try putting forth an actual argument. I'm sure big capital letter slogans are great for rabble-rousing in Philadelphia (or in Seattle, where I come from) but when you aren't preaching to the choir, they aren't much good. So, next time, brush up on your grammar, maybe learn how to put together a coherent argument, and I'll be happy to engage you any time you like.
Oh, yes: and if you really think that Philly is just as dangerous as Baghdad, I invite you to come visit. If you hurry, you might make the memorial for four of my friends who died last week when a thousand pounds of homemade explosive flipped their 33-ton Bradley over and burned it to the ground. After the memorial, I can drop you by the Abu Hanifah mosque and you can walk the six block from there to FOB Apache. I'm willing to bet that within half a block, you're begging for some robocops to come save rescue you from the poor, opressed Iraqis.
Posted by: Josh at July 25, 2007 05:59 AMEdan, I think you're offbase about the iraqi civilians this group of 82nd airborne met. They might have felt oppressed by them and responded with smiles because they felt they had to. Or they might have accepted them. You don't know.
Far more important is how it shows this elite unit responding to iraqi civilians. They walked around on foot and talked to people. (I didn't have it straight how many translators they had, but for 2 dozen troops it sounded like more than one.) In the heat of the summer they didn't insist on a nighttime curfew, except for vehicles. When they stopped vehicles they didn't automatically detain people, they gave them warnings. They gave away expensive civic improvements -- they promised street lighting and subsidised gasoline.
When they suspected somebody they didn't break down the door and immobilise everybody and drag the suspect off. They knocked, they were reasonably polite, they had an extended conversation and finally they let the man go. This is a giant improvement. If our troops had been behaving this way from the beginning we'd be in far better shape in iraq now.
If we had 500,000 troops in iraq as good as the 82nd airborne, we could probably win this thing in 10 years or less.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 06:15 AMIf I had seen Josh's post before typing, I would not have bothered, as he makes the point I had far better than I could in Atlanta.
Stay safe.
Posted by: Appalled Moderate at July 25, 2007 06:16 AMEven in the worst places, day-to-day activity is mundane and quiet. When attacks occur, they do so viciously. In my case, these resulted in my unit’s heavy causalities. Nonetheless, I rarely patrolled in fear. I knew that on most days, our patrol would result in an absence of action.
Steve B, thank you for relating your experience.
So, the take-home lesson here is that the area that Michael saw may not actually be under control at all. Attacks come at the insurgents' initiative, and a unit can take heavy casualties even though on most days nothing happens.
And of course Michael's report itself shows that the patrols were ineffective at controlling the insurgents.
“He didn’t want to say who he’s afraid of because he’s afraid,” Lieutenant Wolf said. “If the insurgents find out he gave information to us, or that he helped us, he’s dead.”
We can keep the bad guys from using trucks at night. We can keep them from openly marching in large formations and usually even small formations, and we can catch a few of them. But we can't provide security. We can't keep them from killing pretty much whoever they want to.
But there's hope. If we can continue to make a good impression on the people in this town, if we can persuade them that we aren't going to leave any time in the next 10 years, and if we keep the same people there for years at a time without moving them away for new assignments or for home leave, after a few years they'll start trusting us enough to give us real information about the bad guys. And once we kill off the 10% that's causing the trouble, things will actually get peaceful.
Ten years and 500,000 good counter-insurgency troops ought to do it.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 06:39 AMGreat job reporting...keep your head down. Your interpeter (spelling?) is very brave. Be safe to both of you.
Posted by: Bigg Poppa P at July 25, 2007 06:56 AMMJT, good job but couldn't you have at least digitally blurred the pic of the old man?
BTW, have you been hit by "Montezuma's Revenge" yet?
Posted by: Solomon2 at July 25, 2007 07:06 AMThe USA is a terrorist nation
You are in serious need of an intervention. The loony bin is thataway---------->
buh bye.
Posted by: Carlos at July 25, 2007 07:21 AMMichael, There's a lot of talk about the subtle creep of women soldiers into front line companies which military codes ordinarily prohibit them from being in. (Codes on the books say women are not supposed to "collocate with," or be assigned to, companies engaged in "combat" -- defined as deliberate engagement with and surpression of the enemy.)
So, in the interest of getting info for people who follow that issue: Are there women in "your" unit? How long have they been there? What are their jobs?
Posted by: stephanie at July 25, 2007 07:22 AMJosh,
Your response to Edan was well-written and well-reasoned.
I thank you for taking the time to respond with authority and clarity to the feelings-based diatribe that passes for debate on the Left.
I mourn the loss of your friends and pray for your safety, comfort and success in completing the mission of securing Iraq from the terrorists.
I salute your service to America and I salute your mother for raising such an honorable son.
God Speed,
Truth Junkie
Kansas City, Missouri
JThomas,
I think we should not stay in Iraq one single day longer than we stayed in Germany after WWII, or one day longer than we stayed in Japan after WWII.
And in each of those examples, we got out in ...
let's see ...
how long was that in days...
Oh yeah, I've got it!
The Answer is: WE'RE STILL THERE!
It seemed to work in each of those nations, so why the sarcasm about Iraq?
Don't you know your history?
Edan,
I was going to respond to your July 24, 2007 05:40 PM post with some thoughtful discussion. Then I read your July 25, 2007 05:23 AM post and realized that you're just a whacked out moonbat and there's no way to have a rational discussion about this war with someone like you.
Posted by: Kafir at July 25, 2007 07:48 AM@Edan --
"Can you imagine being 18 years old in Iraq and being harassed daily by these robocops? I imagine if you're a black male in an American city you must have some idea."
Something that seems lost in your thinking is something very basic -- "being harrassed daily by robocops" in America is an inconvenience and an annoyance because we do not have the thread of death squads marching into our house and murdering our family. Your analogy of a Black male in America is just the perfect example of how such a large number of people in America, despite considering themselves worldly observers, simply cannot imagine any place other than America and Europe. It is the ultimate irony in American politics and foreign affairs.
Iraq isn't America. You don't have the convenience of being annoyed by foreign armies.
Furthermore, it is just gaul to assume that you are a better transcriber of the events than a person who was actually there. Your account seems to contradict the account of MJT... and he was there, while you were not.
Finally, your analogy with the Black male in America proves the wrong point. It can be used accurately. Imagine, say, 1873 Southern American states in the early exhaustion of reconstruction. All of these White-Male intruders are living in your houses, pushing you around in the towns, interrogating you, and so on, and you are a Black male. Now, certainly, you wouldn't want to be woken up in the middle of the night, have your family interrogated and so on... it would certainly be an inconvenience. But with the daily threat of being at the end of a hangman's noose, you're much more likely to put aside that inconvenience for the simple desire to exist.
Posted by: MichaelBrazell at July 25, 2007 07:51 AMGreat job, Michael! And I appreciated the well thought out comments from our soldier-readers. I am so proud of the men and women in our military!
Stay safe.
Another commendable piece of work by Michael and we thank you again (time to tip the jar again) and more importantly, please thank our brave forces that are out there doing the job day and night and breaking new ground on how to win on the new battlefield.
I humbly salute the fine soliders who have posted here. Prayers and gratitude to you and your families for your honorable service. No thanks can be restated enough.
As for our poster, Edan, all I can say is it's too bad your feelings about the troops and their efforts has collided hard with reality. Many if not most of those soldiers are holding degrees and advanced ones in the hard sciences and are far smarter and educated than you will ever be.
Stating your feelings as reality has a way of biting you in the ass.
How's that working out for you?
Surge on!
Posted by: Romanesq at July 25, 2007 08:17 AMKafir,
my thoughts exactly. When a Leftard like that calls America a "terrorist nation", what's left to talk about? Better to send them on their way.
Posted by: Carlos at July 25, 2007 08:18 AM'But then, 80+% of iraq is peaceful. Most of the peaceful places, there aren't any US soldiers.
It's good there are places where the insurgents are dormant, where there are US soldiers and no fighting. But don't we need 300,000 to 400,000 troops if we're going to do that many of the places there's fighting?'
I just read 'Empires of the Sand' by Efraim Karsh, and he mentions in there that at the end of World War One Britain had an army of over a million men in Iraq... I reckon both the US and British armies need to beef up.
Truth Junkie, one major difference between germany and japan on one side, and iraq on the other is that we didn't liberate germany and japan. They were the aggressor nations that had fought a long hard world war and lost, in the process losing large numbers of soldiers. They hardly fought us at all during the occupation because they knew they had lost and they had to put up with whatever we did. And particularly in germany they had the example of east germany to look at -- if they did somehow drive us out the red army could march in and treat them like it treated the east germans. Two million east german civilians disappeared from the records and not very many women went unraped.
So we didn't have much of a resistance to deal with, and we did reconstruction as quick as we could, which was pretty quick. We ended the occupation very quickly, set up local governments, turned over the cities to local police, and retired to our bases apart from training maneuvers to repel soviet invasion.
But in iraq we announced it was a liberation and then we spent years acting like we expected random civilians to be the enemy. We wasted a few tens of billions of dollars, mostly iraqi money, on reconstruction but didn't accomplish anything much. We set aside local elected officials and replaced them with appointees who came from places like Cleveland and who weren't particularly familiar with local problems. We tried to set up national police in place of local police, and for years tried to maintain control of them instead of leaving them under iraqi control. Etc.
Probably vitally important was mistreating iraqi civilians. We were very heavy-handed in 2003. Now we’re trying to move forward together. A few years late.
We might perhaps have gotten pretty good results if we'd done it right the first time. Now we're digging ourselves out of a hole and it wil take ten years or so. Note we're spending something in the range of half a billion to a billion dollars a day, and doing it right would cost more.
I'm not being sarcastic. I think half a million well-trained troops who're all staying there for the duration could turn it around. When the troops get swapped out ever six months to a year, that hurts a lot. We need lieutenant Lord of the 82nd airborne to stay in Graya'at for years straight, with no leave longer than 2 weeks, because most of the detailed knowledge he's built up about the people there is lost when he gets rotated out.
We need a lieutenant Lord for every neighborhood where there's been trouble. 120,000 troops after the surge is over will not be nearly enough.
And we need around 300,000 US troops at home who're enthusiastic about the mission. Everybody I talk to who's back from iraq says they'll do their jobs, they're tired, and they see things getting worse, not better. That word-of-mouth isn't real helpful. The surging troops might have a much better story to tell, after they get back. But, like, the guy who was in Mosul in 2004 and then went back to Mosul in 2006 -- not encouraging. Most of the iraqis he knew in 2004 were dead or missing in 2006, buildings blown up, electricity and waterworks gone .... It looked like his work in 2004 had been washed away.
In germany and japan we got the malnutrition problem handled in less than 2 years. If we could even get food distribution working as well as it did under Saddam that would make a big difference.
We started planning for the occupation and reconstruction in germany and japan by 1943. We started preliminary planning for that in iraq after Bremer left. It shows.
The iraqi government has passed a nonbinding resolution ordering us out, and their PM has blocked any vote on a binding resolution. It's quite possible they'll invite us to keep bases in iraq indefinitely. We should wait and see. But I think if they don't it would be a bad idea to get rid of the iraqi government and put in a new one. That would be unhelpful under the circumstances.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 08:43 AMI love the irony in the opening paragraph. There truly is a Lord in Iraq! As always, great reporting Michael.
Posted by: Paul MacPhail at July 25, 2007 08:46 AMThank you Michael. It was refreshing to read a positve story about what's going on in Iraq. We all can speculate on the genuineness of the Iraqi's responses, but it seems pretty sincere. Maybe it's because their everyday lives are actually better than they had been under Saddam.
It's unfortunate that people like Edan have such a dismal view of our country as a whole. He can always live in another country if this one is that bad!
[...] at the end of World War One Britain had an army of over a million men in Iraq... I reckon both the US and British armies need to beef up.
The british are probably pulling out, they're definitely reducing their numbers.
Remember that at the end of WWI there weren't nearly as many iraqis as there are now.
My big concern about troop numbers is with iran and pakistan. We might find ourselves attacking either nation, and we need to occupy them both at least as much as we need to occupy iraq. How do we find the WMDs without an occupation? But the populations are larger, the land area is larger, and the terrain is far more hostile in both cases.
We can continue the status quo in iraq as long as the chinese government pays for it, but what if we need to occupy someplace else?
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 09:10 AMThanks MJT -- and thanks Josh and the others who have been there and take the time to write.
We can probably conclude, simply on the enormous rates of PTSD in returning military, that the violence and terror described by the MSM really isn't fantasy (as a few people here would apparently like to believe).
What we don't get much is a balanced picture, which is here if one reads past MJT's use of words like 'mundane' and 'boring.' The Iraqis live in terror, and crave the mundane. Our soldiers serve as police where the area is controllable, and as Josh points out, as fighters where it's not.
It is too soon to tell whether the Surge and the interactive style employed by Gen. Petraeus and his officers are going to turn the overall tide -- but this piece at least (and at best) suggests it is not yet hopeless.
Amusing that so many here are taking your first report, MJT, as 'the' picture of Baghdad and furiously laying down policies and outlining our future there on the basis of this tiny sample. Give the man some time!
Keep up the thoughtful work, and be safe.
Posted by: Pam at July 25, 2007 09:22 AMMikeK, please don't belittle yourself by calling Edan a Canadian; he's not one of us. We don't need him either, we've got enough leftie moonbats here of our own. Something to remember is that there's probably more Americans referring to the present situation in Iraq as the Bush/McHitler/Cheney war than Canada has citizens. Perhaps if there was more truth in reporting from American reporters (Yon, Totten & Lasswell excluded) people like Edan would realize that this is not a new war in Iraq. It's a resumption of the one started in 1991. Remember, it was a failure by Saddam's regime to abide by the U.N. resolutions that were part of the ceasefire signed by Saddam's generals that brought the U.S. back into Iraq. Maybe if Edan were aware of that little but important fact there would be more peace in the world and less capital letters!
Posted by: Paul MacPhail at July 25, 2007 09:22 AMMr. Totten, more good stuff. Both encouraging and discouraging at the same time, which makes me believe it gives a truer view than is available most other places. Encouraging because it reinforces my view of the professionalism and essential good-heartedness of the majority of our troops. It's also good to hear that there are pacified areas in Baghdad. Discouraging to hear that there are areas our troops simply don't enter. Discouraging to hear that there are areas that are walled off to keep out the other religious sect. And extremely discouraging to hear how poor the infrastructure is four years after Saddam was ousted. Also discouraging to hear how long it took to stop the heavy handed tactics that cost so many hearts and minds in the early going. Finally, discouraging that I tend to agree with J Thomas, it's going to take more troops more time and more money than we can probably manage.
Posted by: Gus at July 25, 2007 09:35 AMThank you.
Posted by: Gaius at July 25, 2007 09:42 AM A Big TEXAS thankyou for taking the risk to report what your seeing over there.
And to ALL our service men and women out there trying to do their job. WE believe in you! We LOVE our soldiers and want them to stay safe. Please know that people like EDAN don't represent the norm of AMERICANS. We see what our soldiers do and know they are the BEST ever!
Just know WE've got your backs! I would appreciate it if you would get the word out to all our troops serving - please tell them this, they are the best and we love them. And thanks for all your sacrifice!
Now for EDAN - your a leftest JERK! Without our soldiers these men would cut your throat. How many Danny Pearl's have to die? It's sad when people lose their trust in a government. We've got problems sure, but they can be fixed.
Keep up the great work Michael! And tell out troops we love them!
thank you,
Beth R.
"10 spot says Edan is a canuck."
As a canuck, I'm insulted..
The Canadian gov't declined to participate in Iraq and that decision was a popular one throughout the country. In hindsight, it was probably the right thing to do given the mistakes that have been made in the post-combat period. Canada however, is deeply involved in Afghanistan in places like Kandahar and suffering real casualties in similar ways, i.e. IEDs and ambushes.
Michael, your reporting is excellent and although you are only one source of information, you are contributing significantly to those of us who are trying to understand Iraq and the ME.
Good luck.
DD
Posted by: DD at July 25, 2007 09:47 AMIt is very inconvenient for some people when Facts get in the way of their Opinions.
Thank you MJT for putting boots on the ground and writing what you observe, and thanks for the service of the troops who are reading and commenting here.
And thanks to the commenters for not allowing a few bad apples to spoil this entire thread.
-L
Edan,
You're a moron. I am a college professor with a Doctorate who just quit my job and enlisted in the Army to try and make a difference. My hope is that, slowly, people like yourself will gradually pull their heads out of the sand and take a look to see what the world around them is really like.
Posted by: Andy at July 25, 2007 10:00 AMEdan's just been slaughtered here today. Which is fun to watch.
Posted by: Matt at July 25, 2007 10:14 AMAndy, thank you! If even thirty percent of the people who support the war by commenting on blogs would volunteer, today, it might make the difference between winning and losing.
Everybody who thinks we can win in less than 10 years should volunteer to put in your 6 years in iraq.
And -- learn arabic. For this kind of occupation a soldier who speaks fluent arabic is worth at least 5 who don't.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 10:27 AMHi Michael,
Excellent post. I just found your blog through the FoxNews syndication and am very impressed. For several years now I've been relying on another independent journalist (Michael Yon) for all of my true information on Iraq and didn't know there were other excellent journalists out there. I'll be adding your blog to my RSS reader.
Thanks again and keep it up!
Stay safe,
Blake
Thanks to everyone for their prayers and encouragement. It helps quite a bit to know there are still normal americans who give a damn. A lot of the time it seems like folks back home have forgotten or just don't care. But there's people like you guys who keep me encouraged. I have to give a thank-you to everyone in Texas. I used to make fun of that state quite a bit, but after the welcome that Dallas gave me on leave, I don't think I can any more. Your state rocks! I couldn't see a crowd in Seattle reacting that enthusiastically.
When you're over here, you tend to focus on a very small part of what's going on in this country. I mostly know what's going on in my own sector, and maybe adjacent sectors if something major is going down. Other areas of Baghdad, and other cities in Iraq, I hear about only if a friend of mine gets killed there. In fact, my mom (who keeps trying to get me hooked on the blogosphere) has a much better idea of what's going on in Iraq as a whole than I do. As I said, we're in about the worst part of it, so it's pretty easy to get discouraged. Articles like this one, and people like you guys, really help to renew my faith in this war. Thanks, MJT, and all you posters.
I'm sort of hoping that our little hippy will come back, but I kind of doubt it. The frustrating thing about liberals is that they seem to be repelled by the smell of honest debate. Kinda like vampires with garlic, isn't it? Oh, and Ednan, if you haven't run back to your mom's basement yet, I'd me more than happy to engage you on any forum you name, any time. Just let me know. I haven't had fun humiliating someone in quite a while.
Posted by: Josh at July 25, 2007 10:38 AMAndy - That is awesome. I wish I had the courage to stand up and try to make a difference like you.
I think we all realize Edan is a sad specimen and I can only hope he realizes the error of his ways. Soon!!
Posted by: K-girls mom at July 25, 2007 10:49 AMI really have a hard time reading the kinds of things Edan says, and trying to classify him in my mind. I mean in an honest way without throwing insults, is he really so unfamiliar with history and does he actually have such a distorted view that he ACTUALLY thinks we are terrorists, or if he just throws around exaggerated terms to make his point. Or is he really one of the other side... I mean... a John Walker, an american terrorist himself? So many people like Michael Moore purposely distort the truth in order to persuade people to try to hate America. I wonder if Edan is a casualty of the lies, or if he is a perpetrator.
Posted by: Matt at July 25, 2007 11:38 AMMichael
I was wondering, is it possible / safe for you to visit that neighbourhood without the protection of the unit you were patrolling with?
If so, it would be interesting to hear what the locals say about the US troops when they are not around. eg are they genuine in their tolerance / affability towards the US or are they friends by day and enemies by night??
Posted by: mertel at July 25, 2007 11:52 AMattaboy mertel for THE question that any person knowledgeable of the arab me should ask.
My guess is that mjt won't go there alone.
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 12:03 PMmatt,
you're probably not aware of what western universities are producing these days and what is happening on campuses.
it is not just ignorance of the world and history -- a contribution in its own right -- but outright indoctrination in leftist, anti-semitic and anti-american drivel.
i suggest you check out the output of campus watch and the writings of martin kramer on the subject.
here's just one short item i came across recently:
http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2007/07/rebellion.html
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 12:10 PMJosh,
I loved your comments, I deeply appreciate your service, I honor you for your integrity, and I salute you for the best of America that you represent. Please believe that there really are normal Americans who do give a damn and do appreciate what you're doing for us and the world.
As for Edan, I'd happily purchase a one-way ticket for him to Tehran, Pyongyang, Havana, Paris, or wherever else he might feel more at home.
Posted by: Taylor at July 25, 2007 12:23 PMThis is an interesting piece of reporting from the front lines. I certainly enjoyed it throughout. Reading through the comments, however, I am surprised at how quickly some have taken this one piece of work to mean "Everything is actually working in Iraq!" The piece does no such thing. It merely presents a very small slice of the overall pie that is refreshing because it differs from the taste of most of the rest of the pie.
I'm proud of the successes we have scored in Iraq - there have certainly been some. Reading such stories, in fact, make me want to stay, to commit more, to do more for the Iraqis. Let's all take a step back, though.
Electricity only one hour a day? That's 3 hours less than 2004 levels and significantly less than during the pre-war, post-Desert Storm era. Consider that some of the most basic goals still haven't been met because, logistically, we don't have enough boots on the ground. Some estimates of civilian contractors in Iraq number 150,000 - one reason this war has cost so darn much.
Can the United States do what it takes to save the peace and drive Al-Qaeda out of Iraq? Of course. We have the finest military in the world. Is it worth it, though? Can the Iraqis do it themselves? Can we help them accomplish our shared goals in other ways that don't cost us so much money?
We need to start thinking about ways to win other than putting our robocops (Robocop was a hero and kids loved him, btw) in harm's way. We need to do more diplomatically and less militarily, because it's been shown that we, as a nation, don't have the financial will to pursue this war much further. Wars cost a lot of money. The cost will keep rising as our military bends further and further. I hate to think about what it does to our deterrent capabilities that are so stressed by this action in Iraq.
We need to put our heads together and come up with some workable solutions instead of arguing about how/if we went wrong, the purported media bias, and etc. That helps no one, especially our men and women out there dying in the less gentrified streets of Baghdad.
Posted by: Jim at July 25, 2007 12:24 PMI have been following the comments to this post and am encouraged that both sides in this debate are attempting to stay intellectual and reasonable during the discussion. I have posted myself, but as an update: I am a former Army soldier, having served with the Infantry twice in Iraq, once during the invasion and during a second tour in Ar Ramadi. I am currently a university student, majoring in International Studies and Religious Studies, with a Middle East focus, while taking Arabic.
There are many points raised in the preceding comments that I would like to address using my experience and limited knowledge as information sources.
First, I want to counter J. Thomas’s comments with a few thoughts of my own. Thomas stated:
“I think half a million well-trained troops who're all staying there for the duration could turn it around. When the troops get swapped out ever six months to a year, that hurts a lot. We need lieutenant Lord of the 82nd airborne to stay in Graya'at for years straight, with no leave longer than 2 weeks, because most of the detailed knowledge he's built up about the people there is lost when he gets rotated out.
As a disclaimer, I want to declare that I am not necessarily a fan of the “surge” as military strategy. In fact, I wrote what I considered was a pretty through assessment on the strategy and suggested a more likely successful tactic here: http://educatedsoldier.blogspot.com/2007_07_20_archive.html (scroll past the political conversation to access the text concerning the surge).
I disagree on the necessity of half a million troops. Instead, I think we need to better utilize the elite troops that we have – both in America’s arsenal and in most military’s abroad – to successfully quell any terrorist initialed sectarian violence that is occurring. For example, in the United States, we have five active duty Special Forces groups and two in the National Guard. The Fifth Group is particularly useful in performing such missions in the Middle East. Most members speak rough Arabic but also have thorough training in the cultural disciplines of the area. Moreover, all the Special Forces soldiers are selected and trained in precisely the mission now needed in Iraq: Foreign Internal Defense; the military action of training foreign internal forces to more successfully fight for themselves.
In my assessment, the better utilization of these troops would have a more optimistic chance at success in Baghdad then simply massing conventional troops. All that being said, if the reports on the ground are suggesting that the surge is working in its current incarnation then I have little choice but to cede to these reports.
Now, onto your claim that we need individuals like Lieutenant Lord to remain in Iraq for long periods of time: I disagree. There is one thing that the United States military does as well as any other force that I know of. Our military is absolutely amazing at ensuring that in-coming replacements know exactly what is going on in the area that they are taking over. For sake of operational security, I am not going to detail how the transition works, but I can make it clear that incoming units spend weeks to months working with the outgoing units, leaning the intricacies of the area. They meet the citizens and they are given the needed area information. Most infantry units have their own “Lieutenant Lord,” who is excited to perform the job and motivated to achieve success, and that is the beauty of our well-trained, volunteer military.
And, finally, I want to comment on something that the poster PAM said:
“We can probably conclude, simply on the enormous rates of PTSD in returning military, that the violence and terror described by the MSM really isn't fantasy (as a few people here would apparently like to believe).”
While I am in no position to question the integrity of our returning military, although I am returning military myself, I would suggest that you do NOT conclude anything from such data. For example, I heard a while back that large portions of the returning military were returning to unemployment. I was one of these unemployed soldiers. However, I was unemployed because the government offered all soldiers six months of unemployment compensation upon leaving the military. With such easy money available, I jumped on the opportunity. Many of my friends did as well. This suggests that, in the case of unemployment, the data was largely skewed.
The data concerning PTSD is probably far from scientifically firm as well. Every time I visit the V.A. hospital, I am reminded that if I answer in a certain manner to a few questions, I can acquire monetary compensation for PTSD treatment for life. I choose not to do this, but only because I have a desire to reenter the Defense field in the future and such treatment would hinder my record. Many of my friends don’t have such concerns about reentering the field and do take advantage of these offered services. Whether their “PTSD” is as strong as they suggest is of question.
I am totally sympathetic to those that do suffer from such difficulties. I have my own fair share of disturbances developed from my experiences so it isn’t my intention to “knock” on those that do suffer or to even “knock” those that are taking advantage of a sympathetic system. I only trying to warn you with backed reason from making a jump from such PTSD data to the actual situation in Iraq that Mr. Totten, I, and many others are trying to make you aware.
Thanks.
Posted by: Steve B. at July 25, 2007 12:28 PMstay safe and watch your back at all times. I am retired. Dont believe all you hear on tv. We the people are behind you
A.J
Posted by: ALLAN JONES at July 25, 2007 12:40 PMJosh, SteveB, and the other military who have commented --
First, thank you for your service... There are not comprehendable words that could possibly surmise my affection for you.
Second, thank you for sharing your opinions and expertise on this issue -- they are very interesting and certainly stand in abject contradiction to the reports that dominate the news, like the spurious articles output by The Nation and The New Republic.
Again, thank you.
Posted by: MichaelBrazell at July 25, 2007 01:38 PMThanks for the story. Maybe you can carry Edan's perspective to the troops and let them react. My perpective is that any reasoning Iraqi knows the cost between anarchy and ass kissing, and is willing to pay the price. Authority is the consent to be governed, and the vast majority of Iraqi's seem willing to be temporarily governed by patrols of US soldiers. Who is wiser, an ass kissing Iragi, or a whiner in the US, enjoying the security and freedom paid for by Americans willing to follow orders given by an elected President?
Posted by: Bob M at July 25, 2007 01:40 PMjim,
i'm with you.
what foreign policy requires is cunning, which in turn requires kknowledge and reason, part. about the enemy. that is what the west lacks, with dire consequences.
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 01:47 PMEdan,
I've lived in Philly and was never mugged by criminals or harassed by the police. I have also been to Iraq and not been blown up by terrorists or detained by the secret police. Let me assure you that the risks in the two places are different both in quantity and quality.
I have friends who were mugged by criminals and harassed by the police in Philly. They were idiots who got drunk or tried to get stoned. Have you ever considered that maybe you don't have a violence problem with Philadelphia. Maybe you have an idiot problem that is not dependent on location? It may be following you everywhere you are!
Posted by: Patrick S Lasswell at July 25, 2007 01:48 PMFirst and most importantly, my most heartfelt and humble thank you to our brave troops who are risking their lives every day. Gob bless each of you. Secondly, I do not feel that anyone who just sits on their highly protected asses here in the states has no right to pass judgement on what should and should not be done in Iraq or Afghanistan. Let our military do their jobs with the utmost support from everyone back here. It's their specialty. What we should be pushing for is better equipment to increase their safety and help to update all veteran benefits!
Stay safe and keep your heads down!!
ps........I love the job you guys did on Edan! hee
I was wondering, is it possible / safe for you to visit that neighbourhood without the protection of the unit you were patrolling with?
Heyyyyy, Mertel is back! Good luck convincing her about anything in Iraq. She walks around the US, sees all the fat people and somehow thinks we have a hunger problem.
Posted by: Keith at July 25, 2007 02:21 PMHeyyyyy, Mertel is back! Good luck convincing her about anything in Iraq. She walks around the US, sees all the fat people and somehow thinks we have a hunger problem.
I do? Thanks Keith. Just remind me where I said that. One of us is clearly delusional.
Posted by: mertel at July 25, 2007 02:27 PMcindy,
"has no right to pass judgment?" are you suggesting that the military should be the only ones assessing Iraq policy and strategy themselves? you can't be serious.
poor phrasing, methinks.
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 02:29 PMI'm sort of hoping that our little hippy will come back, but I kind of doubt it. The frustrating thing about liberals is that they seem to be repelled by the smell of honest debate.
Josh, I don't think Edan was contributing much. I want to note though that we didn't have anything with him that smelled anything like honest debate. He spouted some opinions and a bunch of people piled on with contrasting opinions, and that was it.
To have anything like an honest debate we'd do better to move to a lower level of abstraction. Get more specific.
Like, arguing about what's a terrorist nation and whether the USA is one, is useless.
But, do we care what citizens of italy think about us? If we kidnap an italian citizen from italy to strenuously interrogate him, just what level of information do we need him to have for it to be worth what it costs us in italy? I tend to think we'd be better off with whatever cooperatin the italian government gives us.
If we use robot planes to swoop in and blow up pakistani citizens in their houses in pakistan, how much are those deaths worth to us, in comparison to what paks think about it? How would you feel if china was sending robot planes into the USA to blow up US citizens? Even if we have an inherent right as a superpower to do that kind of thing while china does not have that right, is it worthwhile to pay attention to pak opinion? We'd like those guys to help us against al qaeda and not help al qaeda against us, right? I tend to think we'd be better off getting the pakistani government to arrest people in those houses. If we've made a mistake it's easier to recover from. Potentially more info comes from it. Less support for AQ, more support for us.
When the world finds out that we've been using white phosphorus not in smoke concentrations but in lethal concentrations, because we want to kill people with it, is the tactical advantage we get from killing those people that way worth the cost? I tend to think that one is OK, not like there's really a consensus against using chemical weapons.
If we're going to discuss the topic, we need to look at specific war crimes, and specific actions against the common agreement of mankind, and specific terrorist actions. Arguing in generalities about whether we're a terrorist nation or not is utterly unproductive.
Posted by: J Thomas at July 25, 2007 02:36 PMCrazy that this is linked from the Guardian Unlimited.....most of the commentors in their 'comment is free' section would be jaw dropping speechless if they read this.
...or they'd accuse the author of being a fake and the photos of being doctored.
If Bush wants support for the 'surge' and beyond, he just needs to find a way for Americans to read more of actual soldier stories....instead of trying to 'invent' heros.
Posted by: Marteen at July 25, 2007 03:15 PMYep, ah-ha this war is lost just like the corpse senator from Nevada says. We are doing no good over there, the people hate us and want us out. Right Murtha?
Thanks for this great post Michael. It warms my heart to hear from people like you who continue to risk it all to bring us the real truth.
Its amazing the amount of projects and schools that are being completed.
Here are the url's of some sites that are great by the military:
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/
http://www.mnfwest.usmc.mil/
http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/
The last one it the Army Corps of Engineers. Very informative for anyone interested in the projects our soldiers are completing for our Iraqi brothers.
God bless every one of them!
Posted by: Corey Wayne at July 25, 2007 03:23 PMHey - I'm back! Sorry for not jumping into my mass-murder earlier, but I was at work.
Geez, where to begin with all the attacks? I've never understood the desire to attack people personally - so I won't call anyone an idiot or what have you. Your responses, collectively, do say a lot about American and its reactionary bent.
I also never knew CAPS were so offensive. It was funny reading your reactions to that as well.
For the record, I do believe Philadelphia has an idiot problem - whomever said that was right. Unfortunately, the idiots have guns, which then makes it a violence problem.
To the soldier who responded to me: I do stand corrected on my previous statement. I am glad your troop has a diverse background. I won't argue with you, since you are in the military and living it daily, but there are many military statistics to back up my statement about the make-up of our military. Your troop is an exception. I wish you guys weren't wasting your time and lives over there.
And why do I say wasting your life? Because there is no exit strategy and plan. The 'War on Terror' is fruitless and unwinable because the very nature of terrorism is such that it can't be planned for or fought against.
We are fighting an enemy much like George Orwell imagined in 1984. They are invisible - no one will ever know when Al Quaeda is defeated. It isn't a country. There are no borders. There is no land to seize.
From the point of view of the military, it's perfect: the war can continue indefinitely - or at least until we get some leadership in the White House.
Bush keeps saying we're going to "win the peace." What does that mean? When is the end? What does peace look like?
And when we leave and the two sides start killing each other again - will we go back in?
If we really care so much about removing a tyrant from office and bringing democracy to poor people, why don't we have 120,000 troops in Sudan? More people died in one year in Sudan than ever died under Hussein's America-backed rule.
Feel free to demonize me all you want - this is the internet and I couldn't really give a shit. If it makes you feel powerful to call me a loony, go for it - feel powerful. But the sad fact is that we are a radicalized people and we can't admit it.
We back an immoral and illegal war and criticize those who try to argue from the point of humanism.
Your arguments, and all those of "red-blooded Americans" would hold water if we helped all people in the world equally.
Those who chide me for not serving my country: I would serve in a non-violent civilian force that helped rebuild countries. I have worked for many non-profits in my life that helped many people. Serving one's country does not have to mean running around with a rifle.
Fire away!
Posted by: Edan at July 25, 2007 04:23 PMThank you for the IMPRESSIVE report.
I am glad to hear that so MUCH is being accomplished in Iraq... as far as I'm concerned the media can continue to report on the bombs and violence because it actually misleads the terrorists into thinking they're winning.
I'm also glad that so many Iraqis are now free and able to live their lives. I agree with the assessment that "security and safety" are among the most basic of rights. Without a solid police force in the U.S. we would have many more problems too. Rule of law is essential to any peaceful society, protecting the right of the people to feel safe.
God Bless you and all of our brave soldiers!
Todd
Posted by: Todd Stock at July 25, 2007 05:05 PMOut of respect for our host and the work he is doing I hope we will all be able to resist the temptation to lower the level of this discussion, regardless of how much someone might ask for it.
Posted by: lindsey at July 25, 2007 05:08 PMFrom Edan: If we really care so much about removing a tyrant from office and bringing democracy to poor people, why don't we have 120,000 troops in Sudan?
That illogical meme again. How bout this. If we care so much about feeding the poor in Africa, how come we don't have Live Aid for South America? For Asia? For the North Pole?
Stupid and illogical, as you can plainly see.
If you don't believe we really care so much about removing tyrants, that's not the way to prove it.
Posted by: Carlos at July 25, 2007 05:47 PMaw, c'mon carlos. there is nothing wrong with that specific logic.
there are dictators and there are dictators. the way we pick and choose which to topple and which not is more than obvious that is not based on the concern for the population.
otherwise all the arab regimes would be toppled.
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 06:06 PMfp,
I know there are other strategic considerations taken into account. Primarily, a foreign policy has to be in OUR self-interest. Also, a policy has to be feasible. But that doesn't minimize our concern for the population in Iraq, which is no less than in Darfur or North Korea or Iran.
Posted by: Carlos at July 25, 2007 06:21 PMEdan,
if you really care about the genocide in Darfur, how come so uncaring about the coming genocide in Iraq if we leave prematurely?
See? That's an easy game to play.
Posted by: Carlos at July 25, 2007 06:34 PMi don't disagree with what you say, except the concern bit.
I very much doubt that decision makers care much about foreign populations -- they don't even care much about our own -- and the public is split between those who do not care and those who care only symbolically. most of the public does not even have a clue about foreign nations.
all you gotta do is look at the western obsession with israel and not with all the barbarians around the world.
Posted by: fp at July 25, 2007 06:37 PM>>>I very much doubt that decision makers care much about foreign populations
fp,
that's fine. I'm just thrilled when there is a rare confluence between our self-interest and the wellbeing of those foreign populations. I believe that to be the case in Iraq. It doesn't happen often, so why not run with it and enjoy it?
Also, I'm not so worried about people's secret motives-- only their acts. And that is especially true of our government. If the act is worthy and results positive, then I couldn't care less about "secret motive